From:
Nigel Day
Subject: Landslide
Dear Aidan,
I have just discovered 'Eyewitness' and have become totally engrossed
in the various pieces of correspondence. I really could do with some help
on this one as I can find no reference to the particular incident on any
web site searches. You are my only hope!!
Back in the 70's as a pupil at Brentnall Primary School, Bury New Road,
I would play with my friends in the area facing the school known locally
as the Landslide. We used to stare in amazement at the tram tracks just
hanging over the cliff not knowing what or when it happened!
When did the side of the road cave in taking the tracks with it down to
the banks of the Irwell and what actually happened? Where trams thrown
down and did any houses fall? I do seem to remember at the base of the
cliff old remnants of Victorian walls and gate pillars?
I still pass every day on my way to work in Manchester and the mystery
still niggles away at me!!
Many thanks in anticipation of your help.
Nigel Day
After
receiving your message, I went and took a look at the Landslide, where
the top of Great Clowes Street collapsed and fell down the Cliff towards
the River Irwell below. I'm told by my adviser on this area, Cllr Jim
King, that the landslide took place around 1927. The tramlines used to
run along here and disappeared down the embankment along with the cobblestones,
walls and railings. Even now, part of the street is left and the tramlines
are still there. Salford Local History Library have more information,
including newspaper cuttings so that's the place to go. Thanks very much
for your message - I've learned something new!
RAY O'NEILL
Well done Aidan, once again you have proved to me that you should be the
official historian of 20th / 21st century City of Manchester. I agree
in a lot of the problems with the gardens and surrounding area, however
I think eventually it will fit in the minds of people as a place to go
to meet and chat and have lunch. I feel however that there should be more
trees across the lawns and more flower beds along the edges.
In Portland here we have the Pioneer square that was built on public money
by the sale of individual bricks that had the names of the family/families
on them , with Doric style columns up and lying sideways as though incomplete
but with lots of trees, I think you will find that in the book I sent
you.
Keep up the good work. Ray O'Neill
Ray O'Neill
Thanks
very much - People will probably become accustomed to the Gardens and
forget completely how it used to be. What their reaction will be to the
office block is another matter. I'll have a look in the book of Portland
'Then and Now' which Ray kindly sent me, and takes pride of place on my
bookshelf. Official historian? That would be an honour - and to think that
at school I found history boring and gave it up!
Gordon
Simpson
Dear Aidan I was fortunate enough to visit Gorton Monastery and was impressed
by the splendour and scope of the building. It must have in its heydey
been a truly wonderful place of worship. My thoughts tried to conjure
up what it was like in previous years. I had a go yet was constantly hampered
by thoughts of neglect and vandalism so it was hard to imagine. Ican only
assume that it was a magnificant social and theological hub of a once
thriving pre housing development community. I was told the decline was
due to falling people numbers yet when new houses were built surely did
they not need the monastery its social centres and its schools. I attribute
the real reason to that root of all evil, money, or the lack of it. The
order could not afford it the Salford Diocese could or did not want to
take it on nor did the people of the parish it served. Result left to
ruin. Yet now they have found funds via charity commissions lottery grants
et al to refurbish it in a completly different notion which is all too
common a business and conference centre not a church. I'm not really whinging,
as its a better option to demolition. It just seems ironic in 1989 no
money decay of fine heritage. 2002 found money no monastery. What are
your thoughts on this? By the way good luck and best wishes to all involved
in the restoration project.
Gordon Simpson 4 Fern Close MIddleton M24 2FZ.
Since
the 1980's times have changed - In that decade, Manchester was still suffering
the effects of industrial decline. Other factors involving local and national
government also played a role. The net result was that there was no money
to continue to maintain the monastery. There was a redevelopment proposal,
but it fell through and the building was left in a kind of limbo. In earlier
decades it probably would have been demolished. It was left unoccupied
and was vandalised. Many precious artefacts disappeared. Nowadays things
have changed. There are plenty of sources of money, prosperity is growing
and there is a feelgood factor, though there is still a lot of work to
do in east Manchester. To me, it seems wrong to use a church for any other
purpose than that for which it was built, but there have been many examples
of church buildings being put to new uses, so why not this one? Thanks
as ever for your contribution.
Ken
Hindle
Hi Aidan
Thank you so very much for your article on Levenshulme and particularly
the comments by Joyce. As I read through the captions I was continually
conscious of the familiarity of her comments, for I too lived in Levenshulme.
You can imagine my surprise when I got to the last page to find that the
Joyce making all the comments was my own sister, my youngest sister, for
there are six of us, myself being the elder brother Ken. Then there's
-in age group- Jean, JOYCE, Arthur, Eric & Paul, all of us spending
many years of our lives in Worsley Grove.
I've spent many nights at the Palais-de-dance, been to the Aradia both
when it was a cinema & as a skating rink, around 1938-9, I think,
in fact my grandfather helped put the new floor in for it. We used to
go the the Grand cinema & the Regal which was just up the road from
it on the opposite side of Stockport Rd. Later it - the Regal- became
one of the first Tenpin Bowling Alleys. I was married in St Peters Church
on August 1st 1953, so my wife Bud, & I celebrate our fiftieth anniversary
next year. Jean and Derrick celebrated theirs on June 5th 2002. Let me
tell Aidan you made my day with this article on Levenshulme. Keep up the
good work.
Regards
Ken Hindle
Thanks
very much indeed for your comments - It's a small world - you in Australia
and Joyce here in Manchester and you are brought together via the Internet
- and my website. Back in 1938, we could scarcely imagine what would happen
in the future. Flying cars? No. Instant communication across the globe,
nostalgia and reminiscing on the past? Yes!
Christian McKie
e-mail:
Subject: nostalgic expats
I can't help get slightly ticked off by a large proportion of emails posted
on the Eyewitness site from people who left Manchester 30, 40 or more
years ago for a life in Australia, New Zealand & Canada. A life free
of back to back slums with out door privvies, poor water supplies, high
rates of infant mortality, smog and the endless grind working in dirty,
hazardous factories only to come home in the endless rain to a sub standard
diet of chips AGAIN with gravy.
Now, 40 or so years later after a either a visit home or looking at developments
covered on your site the collective cry appears to be "all those
changes are for the worse" "it doesn't seem like home anymore"
"not like the GOOD OLD DAYS" etc.
What I would like to know is what was so good about the filthy conditions
people lived in back in the 50s & 60s? How could life have been better
then than it is today. Do these expats expect the people of Manchester
today to put up with those conditions and inequalities just to keep their
past memories alive? If so then how terribly selfish of those who took
the first opportunity that arose to jump ship.
You raise
a lot of very interesting and valid points here, and it's all to do with
peoples' perceptions. Yes, many expats have fond memories of the Manchester
of earlier times, and don't like the changes. Their perception of Manchester
was a place of childhood happiness with a strong sense of community. Your
perception of the Manchester of that time is very much the traditional
picture of old Manchester, that of the grim industrial town full of back
to backs and smoky chimneys. Even today, some people in the south of England
think Manchester is still like that.
But the
truth about the so-called grim industrial town is more difficult to pin
down. In the 1950's many people in Manchester lived in pleasant semi-detached
houses - there was smog in the winter, but there were hot summers too
- and there were outdoor swimming pools to go to. There are all gone now.
Small children played out on the street and took the bus to school. There
were slums, but no back to back houses - back to back means 'sharing a
rear wall' - These had virtually all been demolished by the 1930's. Manchester
was smoke-blackened, much of it derelict and laden with a depressing atmosphere
of the past, but it had a very distinctive character, with many buildings,
squares and attractions which were not to survive for much longer. What
we need to do is bring our perceptions closer to reality - the reality
of the past and the reality of the present - That's what I'm trying to
do in Eyewitness in Manchester. Thanks for your comments!
Subject: Dolphins at Sharston Baths
Hi Aidan, I remember seeing a dolphin show at Sharston baths in the early
seventies, I was wondering if you could guide me in the right direction
to find out more about this show. I was about 6 years old. When mention
it to people they look at me like I'm daft.
I'd be very grateful if you could help, if not may I thank you for your
time in reading this and also take this opportunity to say keep up the good
work regarding the history of our great city.
yours expectantly,
Keith Holland
Youth Program Worker
Manchester YMCA
I mentioned
this to film director John McCormack, who grew up in Wythenshawe, and he
remembers the dolphin show. Sharston baths are of course now gone, replaced
by houses. They are one of the many public baths in Manchester which were
closed in advance of the - in my opinion - disappointing Commonwealth Games
pool. Another place where you would have seen water-borne entertainment
was Belle Vue Showgrounds, but they have gone too. Manchester is regaining
much of its greatness, but many priceless assets were allowed to disappear,
and it's still happening today. Thanks for your message.
Keep up the great work in providing us with this outlet to indulge in
nostalgia for the Manchester of our childhood. Should you get round to
writing a new section on Cheetham Hill, please could you include a photograph
of Paisley Terrace? It was just to the north of Cheetham Hill Library.
This library is an attractive Edwardian building in a grey stone and with
stained glass windows. I think the architecture is called Art Nouveau,
or something like that. Anyway, it is a building full of the civic pride
of the early 1900's.
Getting back to Paisley Terrace, it opened up rather ignominously with
a Victorian public covenience on its left hand side but the remainder
of this short cul-de-sac might have been a film set for a Dicken's Novel.
It was on a hill I seem to remember. It was a little corner of old Cheetham
Village set in a time bubble for it had apparently escaped the later shopping
developments in the area. This quaint little corner must have survived
up to about 30 years ago. I wonder if anyone else remembers it?
The building of the Cheetham Precinct in the 1970's brought about the
Arndalization of the upper reaches of Cheetham Village. The pedestrian
walkways, the "seen one seen them all" shop fronts, and the
benches for street gangs to lounge around, replaced a run-down, but certainly
more civilised area of individualised shops and businesses. I have yet
to see one of these mass-produced concrete shopping areas that has a welcoming
feel or even just a touch of atmosphere.
Looking forward to future updates of your site.
With my best wishes,
Steven Frais
Yes, I
agree about those shopping developments. As for Paisley Terrace, I'm including
it on my list of 'requested locations', so we can see what it looks like
now. Much of the character and feel of a place is in the details - such
as cobbled streets, flagstones, lamps. Unfortunately, many local authorities
seem to have little awareness of the value of these details and tarmac
the cobbles, rip up the flagstones and install cheap, modern lights. I
think we should take the 'film set' approach to maintaining heritage areas
- and that means most of Manchester - Maintain the details as much as
possible so they are in keeping with the original character. After all,
we wouldn't put an Ikea-style stainless steel uplighter lamp in a Victorian
living room, but that's what they have done in Ancoats. Thanks for your
message.
The
next contribution is from our resident cinema expert, Berne Leng, it's
a message to Joan Georgulis regarding the Gaumont Theatre. I'll include
the photo I took at the same spot by the Irwell where Berne Leng took
a photo in the early 1950's, plus another of his photos of the Gaumont.
Date: 30 May 2002, 03:01:24 PM
Subject: The Gaumont Manchester and the Wurlitzer Organ.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Joan,
I am pleased that my article evoked such happy memories of Manchester,
the Gaumont Theatre and the fabulous Wurlitzer Organ. Since the article
first appeared last Aug/Sept I have received e:mails from the U.S.A. Canada,New
Zealand and Australia and of course the U.K. all with tales to tell.
It amazes me how far peoples lives have taken them since they sat in
the stalls, circle and loges of the beautiful Gaumont which is now just
a happy memory.
You mentioned the Long Bar (the longest bar in Britain being 60' in length).
I went down there a couple of times in order to pinch the Long Bar stools
which we used in the Projection room, they being just the right height
for us to see the screen as we ran the films. I often wondered if
the manager realised that his stools were slowly disappearing and if so
where they were going.
From the article you will have realised that the theatre was actually
built by Granada who purchased the Wurlitzer Organ, indeed in the order
book that Wurlitzer still retain the entry reads Granada Wurlitzer.
The theatre was sold to the Gaumont people 3 weeks prior to its opening
and they brought in their own organist, a very young Stanley Tudor who
played on the opening night in 1935, and there he remained as resident
organist until 1941 when he was called up to serve in the R.A.F.
Upon returning in 1946 he had remembered the last tune he had played
there in '41 and turned to the audience and said 'now where
was I before I was interrupted, and played the same tune again much to
the delight of his many Mancunian fans.
He left in 1953 when the Rank Organisation dismissed all its organists
but returned about 1958 for a couple of years.
During his wartime absence many well known organists did guest spots
including Reginald Fort and Reginald Dixon so it is
feasible that you heard one of these at that time.
Stanley, however, was also famous for his sing-a-longs when with the
words projected on to the screen the Manchester audience would enthusiastically
join in.
Stanley continued playing at venues around the country until ill health
forced him to retire, but the White Rose Wurlitzer at the Gaumont always
remained his first love. He died in 1972.
The Gaumont continued until January 1974 when it closed and remained
just a dark derelict building until 1976 when it was purchased and turned
into a night club/disco. The Wurlitzer organ which had not been used for
years was fortunately rescued by The Lancastrian Theatre Organ Preservation
Trust, disassembled and stored in various warehouses one of which caught
fire and the outer casing of the organ was destroyed. The original plans,
however, still existed and a new casing was made being identical to the
original.
It took 16 years to find a new home for the organ, Granada Television
Studios (makers of Coronation Street) decided to create a studio tour
and cinema history section and the Wurlitzer found itself back with the
Company that originally purchased it in 1935.
In 2000 the studio tours site was needed for a new television company
and once again the organ had to be dismantled and put into storage where
it remains today. A new home has possibly been found in the Longfield
suite of the Public Hall in Prestwich. This, however, is a project which
will not be brought to fruition for some time. Once installed it will
be used for the dance evenings, until then the instrument remains silent.
The Wurlitzer Organ is the only remaining artefact of a theatre which
gloried in the title Showplace of the North.
If you would like to bask in the nostalgia of that time half a century
ago when you sat at this organ and relive once again the sound of the
organ recorded at the Gaumont Theatre then a recording now on CD and cassette
of this instrument played by Stanley Tudor is available.
'Powder Your Face With Sunshine is the title Stanley Tudors new signature
tune, his original 'Singing in the Rain' was dropped after the Manchester
Tourist office complained that it was not making their job any easier!.
The CD and cassette of this title is I believe now not available.
If you are interested then let me know and I will point you in the direction
for the purchase of the Sunshine recording.
I often play the CD in the car and wallow in those long ago days when
a visit to a cinema especially a theatre like the Gaumont was an experience
not known to the youngsters of today.
Many thanks once again for you kind remarks regarding my article, it
is gratifying to know that people all over the world keep in touch and
enjoy Aidans Eyewitness in Manchester and its features.
Berne.
Dear Aidan,
What a lucky chap you are swanning around the world, a half day in Bognor
is all I manage !.
Still life is not dull, my computer system went dead, but thanks to Sony
is now up and running again, but I had a lot of e:mails to catch up on.
Then I dropped a typewriter on my foot and have been in continuous terrific
pain for 6 weeks, limping around and getting sleepless nights which is
why you are getting this reply at 4:40 in the morning.
That cinema article is still producing e:mails to me asking questions
about the Gaumont and cinemas around Manchester and I always answer them
giving fuller information than that contained in the article.
Yours readers letter from Joan Georgulis of Texas fascinated me as she
had sat at the Gaumont Wurlitzer, not many can say that and I thought
you would like to see the type of reply she received. A bit of public
relations if you like, but people do not expect a thank you these days
and it all helps in the promotion of your site.
With regard to the Irwell photograph I take it you have not started to
hunt the location down as yet and that my map and directions have not
led you on a wild goose chase. If I can help further please advise.
Meantime following a re organisation of my computer room which was supposed
to help me I am now in more chaos than ever and cannot find a box file
containing a list of all those guest organists who played at the Gaumont,
so I am having to rely on my memory hence Charles Forte getting in on
the act.
Have a safe trip home (Manchester needs you).
All the best Berne
Berne
was referring to my trip earlier this year to the UAE, and my return to
Manchester in June. The UAE is no longer an exotic place for me, it's
more like a kind of home from home! I was glad to get back to Manchester
and escape the sweltering heat. Thanks as ever for your contributions
which are interesting and very well written. I found the spot on the Irwell,
see above!
Olga
Quinn
Subject: Denton
Hi Aidan,
I was born in Thornley Park, Denton, in 1938. I now live in the far south
of Tasmania. We are right on the water which is pretty wild at times as
there is little between us and the Antarctic. We spend hours fishing and
are usually joined by curious dolphins and seals. I was back in the UK
on an extended stay in 2000/2001 and was quite amazed by the changes in
Manchester.
What I would like to find out is does anyone know the origin of these
names: Denton, Dane Bank, Gorton, Reddish.
I was always told Denton was a form of Dane Town and that Gorton was from
Gore Town. I was also told that these names were because the Vikings came
and fought bloody battles around the area. Can you anyone - help me with
the true origins of these names?
Regards,
Olga Quinn
Yes, I
believe Denton is from Dane-town - a large swathe of northern England
was under the Danelaw, hence a number of Danish-influenced placenames.
I head an explanation of gore as being linked to 'gore' i.e. blood and
violence, but I think it's just the name of the river - actually more
of a stream - Gorton is simply the tún or homestead on the river
Gore. Can anyone shed any light on this?
train crash
From:
Hi, I remember, I think, a bad train crash circa 1954 at the viaduct in
Red Bank off of Cheetham Hill , Queens Rd, near Marcel Fuest paint equipment
distibutors. My dad took me to see this, the coaches were hanging over
the bridge.!!!! Dream or what? I cannot find anything on the web. ???
perplexed Pete
No you
weren't dreaming, there was indeed a serious train crash on that viaduct.
I was browsing in a bookshop and found a very interesting book about train
disasters and this accident was included. I wish I'd bought the book now,
but that's where you'll find the information. Just goes to show the web
doesn't have all the answers. I hope to do a 'Railways in Manchester'
feature soon and will ask one of Manchester's foremost railway historians,
writer and photographer Eddie Johnson.
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