Civil Justice Centre - most significant modern building for years?

[mr angry]

Hello Future Architect,

I see a bit of a sparring debate developing here and to take your points one by one:

1, I am NOT against progress and development. In some respect I am a bit reactionary but in others I am quite progressive, for example I like the way that women can now be considered equal to men and do the same jobs, my current boss is a woman and she is the best manager I have ever worked for.

However, not all changes are for the better, I will quote two examples from my job, in Insurance Broking, one change was positive the other one was not.

IT was positive and beneficial, when we had to provide such things as a register of covers for the client much of the wording was unchanged from one renewal to the next, but the whole thing used to have to be typed out again manually, which we time consuming, IT greatly improved this.

Another, more recent change however is anything but beneficial, the practice of insurance companies outsourcing their work to overseas call centres. Previously you could phone an insurer and would be put straight through to the local office and someone who knew what they were doing and get your query answered. Now you speak to someone 3000 miles away who is reading from a script and has no knowledge of the business and whose grasp of the english language is sometimes limited. This is NOT progress.

Other changes in the way the country runs which I regard as backward steps are buses, previously under public ownership, they were well run and well managed, the private sector exists solely to make profits, see the example of UK North who were closed down by the Traffic Comissioners, wouldnt have happened when MCTD/Selnec/GMT were running the services. Utilities and the railways should never have been privatised either.

Back to buildings. I have never said that you should'nt use different materials, it is the way they are used which I have an issue with. Glass and concrete can be effective, concrete in particular can lend itself to a variety of treatments and some of the early concrete buildings were very good. Unfortunately its widespread use seemed to coincide with the ugly brutalist architecture of the early 60s which gave it a bad name

Glass too, can be OK, The Palm House at Kew is superb and I would love to have seen the Crystal Palace, but square glass slabs like the Beetham Tower I think are awful. I have seen this before, many city centres were spoiled by bad architecture in the 60s by planners who thought they were making progress but they just created eyesores and I am fearful that the same mistakes are being made again

I dont hate all modern architecture, Modernism in its early, Bauhaus inspired pure form, as in the 1920s and 30s was very good, the De la Warr Pavilion at Bexhill on Sea is possible the best example in Britain I like buildings of this ear generally, I also like the stripped classical style common at the time, Bury Town Hall is an example and I also like some of the oddities like expressionism, only really found in Europe. However where a building is just designed to be obtrusive for the sake of it I do not like it, I think the worst building in Manchester is the PC World at the lights on Great Ancoats Street and Ashton Old Road, please tell me you dont like that!!

I do actually agree with you in that the city centre is better now than it was in the early 1990s, but I preferred it in the 60s and 70s, during the 80s it did become shabby, but the whole country did, the 80s were, in my opinion, a horrible depressing black hole.

Yes, you can have development but lets have a bit of subtlety and sensitivity, not "in yer face" slabs

Rant over.

[droylsden_kid]

Does anyone else concur with my opinion of the PC World building - I think it looks like a sinking ship going down starn first.

My own view on modern buildings is that the taller they become, the more claustrophobic the streets outside seen. I don't think all modern buildings are bad, just that the worst seem to be the most prominent. It's a shame that some of the most attractive of the old fall prey to the demolition mans hammer without any consultation with the public who will miss them, only to be replaced by some non-descript edifice.

[future_architect]

the civil justice centre is in the shortlist for the stirling prize, the UK's highest architectual award. we should be proud!

Zaha makes it on to the Stirling shortlist for the third time

Zaha makes it on to the Stirling Prize shortlist for the third time
Published: 17 July 2008 17:30 Author: Richard Waite More by this Author Last Updated: 17 July 2008 18:15 Reader Responses (6)


Zaha Hadid will be hoping to make it third time lucky after her Nordpark Cable Railway in Austria was named on the this year's Stirling shortlist.
Author: Richard Waite.




Nordpark Cable Railway, by Zaha Hadid Architects


The Priztker Prize-winner, who had buildings on the 2005 and 2006 shortlists (the BMW Central Building in Leipzig and the Phaeno Science Centre in Wolfsburg respectively), is joined by fellow former finalist Grimshaw (Eden Project, 2001) with its Amsterdam Bijlmer Arena Station, drawn up in collaboration with Arcadis Architecten.


Bijlmer Arena Station, by Grimshaw and Arcadis


The other four shortlisted schemes for UK architecture's most prestigious prize are: the Accordia housing scheme in Cambridge by Feilden Clegg Bradley Studios, Alison Brooks Architects and Maccreanor Lavington; the Manchester Civil Justice Centre, by Denton Corker Marshall; the revamp of the Royal Festival Hall, London, by Allies and Morrison; and Allford Hall Monaghan Morris' Westminster Academy at the Naim Dangoor Centre in London.


Accordia, by Feilden Clegg Bradley Studios, Maccreanor Lavington and Alison Brooks Architects


The winner will be announced in Liverpool on 11 October. The shortlist for the Stirling Prize is drawn from the winners of the RIBA National Awards and the RIBA EU awards. The Architects' Journal is the main sponsor of the Stirling Prize.


Manchester Civil Justice Centre, by Denton Corker Marshall


Westminster Academy at the Naim Dangoor Centre, by Allford Hall Monaghan Morris

Royal Festival Hall, by Allies and Morrison


Reader Response

[aidanorourke]

Thanks for your comments about architecture - especially modern architecture - I mostly agree.

But please note that there are a small number of comments on this Forum that I am not comfortable with and I will remove them. They account for about one per cent of the entire content.

To compare this minor editing with North Korea is completely off the mark. The whole point of my work as a photographer writer is to highlight issues and encourage debate.

This form is currently hosted on my aidan.co.uk domain and I get very little monetary benefit, but a lot of hassle through spam and dealing with software updates, security issues and lots more.

And one other point. There is a widespread illusion that Manchester was a 'backwater' before the 1990s. Nothing could be further from the truth. Manchester has always been an important, exciting, cosmpolitan city with a mind and attitude of its own.

It's just that in recent years, thanks to social and other developments, this effect has been intensified.

It is an insult to Manchester to say it was a 'backwater' or 'glorified mill town' in the past.

I have lived through six decades of Manchester so I know. Other forum contributors even more and know even better than me.

[Phil Blinkhorn]

If Manchester was a "backwater" or " a glorified mill town" then it was only in the minds of those who wished to run down the area. The truth was very different- as those of us who lived through the last 7 decades know well.

People who have that view need to read some history and look at the number of discoveries made in the city since the start of the industrial revolution, the massive range of historic events and meetings that took place in Manchester which changed British and world history, the importance to the country's and the world's industrial base made by the city and its environs and the huge academic base built up over the last 130 years.

The problem encountered when trying to promote the area in the 1970s and 1980s was the negative attitude of many of the inhabitants to whom the "grass was always greener".

Fortunately those of us with persistance and faith won through and, whilst the results aren't perfect, the city and metropolitan area - a permanent work in progress - is as interesting and attractive to business and visitors as most other cities around the world, and a damn site better than many.

[Phil Blinkhorn]

There were a number of posts in this thread following my last post which were awaiting moderation. I cleared these and at the same time deleted a number of spam posts to the thread.

The admin software chose to delete all the posts awaiting moderation in this thread whilst keeping posts in other threads.

I apologise and would ask the members concerned to repost if they so wish.

Phil Blinkhorn