Manchester Corporation/Selnec PTE Buses

[aidanorourke]

When I was at Xaverian, around my second year, 1970, roughly, I was taking violin lessons, supervised by the flamboyant music teacher Mr Botta.

At the violin shop on Wilmslow Road - John Voight - a second hand violin was acquired for me - can't remember how much it cost... maybe 10 pounds?

It was no Stradivarius but it did the job, and came in a cheap brown violin case.

One days as I was walking from school with my friend Andy Quinn along Oxford Place to the bus stop on Anson Road, there was a very heavy rain shower, and the case got drenched.

The whole of the top surface of the case covering came off in the wet, revealing a layer of bright orange underneath.

From then on I called it my 'Selnec' and scratched the Selnec logo on it with a ball point pen.

I gave up learning the violin and I don't know what happened to the instrument and case.

We often rode on the Crosville 29 with the sliding door, and sat upstairs, where I enjoyed drawing pink panthers in the condensation on the windows. This is something I still do today with my daughter on the 192.

What type would that green bus have been?

[Phil Blinkhorn]

It would have been an ex North Western Dennis Loline with bodywork by Alexander of Falkirk

[D33206HG]

I can confirm that I rode on 6388 on route 106 27/1/1980 & 6390 on 104 24/1/1980 and 6387 on 106 15/2/1980 confirm that these were at Northenden

Steve

[mr angry]

Steve,

Thanks for that, I wish I could remember how many times I rode on those at Bury!

Phil,

Following on from yours on Selnec repaints, heres what I can recollect about them, based on observations of Bury's fleet. The Atlanteans and Fleetlines were repainted very quickly after the take over, as were the East Lancs PD2s, the orange finished just below the upper deck windows and they were renumbered using Burys numerals, not the black Selnec type ones. Four of the Weymann PD3s were repainted quickly at the same time, 208, 210, 212 and 217, the rest remained green for at least another three years but then most were repainted in Orange & White. Ones which were not repainted were 201 (now preserved) 206 and 209, I think all the remainder were.

This later batch of repaints were numbered with the black Selnec type numerals and had the orange Selnec flash instead of the purple Northern one which all the earlier repaints had.

I might be wrong on this but I think the white was a slightly creamier shade than used earlier.

The same thing happened with the Ramsbottom fleet. All of them were Orange & white when we got them at Bury in 1972 apart from 1 and 2 which were fairly quickly withdrawn, still in maroon, and 5 and 10, which were repainted at the same time as the remaining Weymann PD3s mentioned before

Finally, a livery peculiarity, from Burys period. The relief colour to the green was a primrose yellow but two buses had a pale cream instead, 225 one of the PD3s and one of the Merto Cammell Atlanteans, I think it was 108.

[Phil Blinkhorn]

Once the politicians decreed vehicles of all types across the fleet should be repainted to "wave the flag" most depots had a range of vehicles resprayed in fairly short order. The anomalies of colours/position of fleet numbers was replicated across the system and the way some vehicles from a batch were repainted whilst others weren't had little to do with paint/maintenance cycles, more to do with which vehicle was available at a given time when the spray booth was available.

Obviously certain batches weren't resprayed at all. For instance from the MCTD fleet, all but one of 3200-3299 passed to SELNEC, as did all but 22 0f 4100-4189 but none were resprayed. If my memory is correct the first complete batch, numerically, to have been completely resprayed - and then it took a number of years - was 4580-4589 with 3521-3620 being numerically the lowest Leyland batch - though 3471-3520 only missed out because of withdrawals under SELNEC.

Sometime prior to the advent of GMT in 1974 it was decided to abandon the use of the different coloured S symbols on vehicles as a distinction between the divisions. Few vehicles had their S symbols replaced, the majority that had the orange symbol were total resprays from municipal colours and the programme was overtaken by the change to GMT.

The shading of the "Mancunian White" may well have been changed under SELNEC. "Sunglow Orange" was replaced in 1973 because of the way it faded. "Mancunian White" was certainly officially replaced by a creamier shade (or a shade similar to the cream that "Mancunian White" faded to in service) by GMT in 1974 but the creamier shade may also have been applied from when they changed the orange.

I remember the oddball Bury vehicles you mention. Didn't some of the original East Lancs bodied Fleetlines later have cream instead of primrose? Also, have a look at 104 on this link:

Flickr: Search Lady Wulfrun's photostream

The photo of 6335 in GMT days is interesting in as much as it illustrates your statement about the orange finishing just below the windows. This was in keeping with the formula worked out by SELNEC for the colour distribution, the windows depth taking up the area which, on vehicles with shallower windows, would have allowed much more orange below the window line. It also shows an anomaly in as much as the band of orange around the skirt panels is, under the terms of the formula, too shallow by about 4 inches. The top of the orange should have been just above the middle of the headlights.

Presumably, had the correct depth been applied, the area below the lower deck windows would have been disproportionately shallow and this was a compromise to obtain the best balance.

[mr angry]

Cheers Phil,

I knew one of the Atlanteans had the cream. could'nt remember which one. The only possible explanation I can think of is that right at the end of its existence Bury changed the livery - see the East Lancs Atlantean in the photos you forwarded.

I can only guess that 104 and 225 were repainted at about the same time and they used cream instead of yellow.

The only ones which carried this livery were the East Lancs Atlanteans, 1 2 and 3, the final Fleetline single deckers, 92-97 and an oddity, which was so obscure I actually forgot about it when I submitted my earlier posts about Bury's fleet, a Bedford sort of minibus type thing numbered 81. I never travelled on it and am certain it went to Ramsbottom after the take over

[Orla Nutting]

Originally Posted by Phil Blinkhorn

It would have been an ex North Western Dennis Loline with bodywork by Alexander of Falkirk

The Mk III's were bodied by Alexander but the Mk II's were bodied by East Lancs. Both Marks were employed on the 29 in North WesterN days and had troublesome sliding doors along with the AEC Renowns (which had folding doors). I don't know if any of the Mk II Lolines were transferred to Crosville depots responsible for the 29 route.

The 29 had the honour of being, I think, the last bus out of a Manchester central terminus before the all nighters began at 11:15 pm. It left Lower Mosley Street at 11:10 pm on a short working to Wilmslow. It was a bugger to get it stop once it was en route out of town. Of course it was a Limited Stop service up to the White Hart at Cheadle but the late evening crews seemed to interpret this as meaning non stop. One had to stand in the road at Denison Rd to get it to stop....and then only with luck

[Phil Blinkhorn]

None of the East Lancs bodied Lolines were used by Crosville, all went to SELNEC Cheshire and all stayed in North Western livery until withdrawn

[Degsy168]

Originally Posted by aidanorourke

This is the corner of St Mary's Gate and Deansgate. We are looking south along St Mary's Gate towards the Royal Exchange - the clock is visible on the right. Straight ahead is Market Street, along which the bus probably came.

Today on the left is Number One Deansgate, built on the site of the former Shambles West development. Here is the corner in question, from a different angle.



I never got used to seeing the buses in that ugly orange livery. It was a 'modern' colour scheme but the buses were still from the 'traditional' era and looked better in the greens and reds and creams of the old municipal liveries.

I remember the distinctive sound of the engines of these buses. A very good photograph - but where did you get it?

Aidan,

Many thanks for the info regarding the location of Daimler CVG6 No 4468 NNB 278 in response to my question. As to where I got the photo, It was sent to me by a friend of mine who's also a bus enthusiast.

[Phil Blinkhorn]

Degsy,

Photos of any of this class in SELNEC colours are quite rare and I haven't seen one in that location before. The photo is even rarer because the S flash is orange and there is no divisional name (Northern, Central or Southern - the bus was operated at the time by Central), just SELNEC, which means it was a late 1973/early 1974 repaint.