Route number changes in 1966 or 1967

[Jonblake]

Greetings to you all. I am Jonblake, born 1947, a graduate of Manchester University who has lived and worked in Madrid for 30-odd years, but I lived (and eventually worked) in Manchester from 1965 to 1971 and again for a little while in 1972. I worked in the city centre, and also at IBM at Brooklands for a while, and also in an office they had in Wilmslow; I had a duller job before that, with an import/export company eventually based at Hazel Grove; and I lived on Barlow Moor Road for a lot of this time, at the Village end, though I also had spells living at Northenden, just up the road from Sharston garage (the 44xx type were always my favourites) ; Chorlton and Whalley Range. And Heaton Moor, as well.

It is hot in Madrid and last night sleep was hard to come by, and for some unknown reason I started to think about the Wilmslow Road bus routes as they were when I hit town in 1965, and as sleep still wouldn't come, I started to see how many of them I could remember and what they changed to, and when, exactly. I think I got most of them, but what happened to the 40 (quondam 50)? And the 41 was also the 50 in some way. The 41 and 43 became the 43 and 49, but the 49 seemed to disappear as well. The 161 / 162 became the 45 and the 63 / 64 became the 46 / 44, I am fairly certain. But if there is a complete list published anywhere or if anyone knows, I'd love to know.

In the end I got up, came to the computer to se what I could find out and that was when I discovered your Forum with the wonderful information about all the operating companies, and I have been reading it assiduously ever since. I cannot for the life of me recall exactly what the 74 did, either. But I know I used to know, and very well. For almost a year around 1969 I had to get a 16 from Didsbury to Mersey Square and then a 92 to Hazel Grove, and 74's were all around, but where did they run from / to?

Any info on this would be welcome. And what was the difference between a 97 and a 147? And in some of the excellent photos I've been looking at, Northenden buses seem to have operated this route. Did they, in fact?

Well, I hope someone can fill me in on some of this, some time.

And cheers again. The pictures I've seen today of 4407 and my special favourite 4447 have quite made my day, or maybe year, even.

[aidanorourke]

Great to hear from you. It's hot in Manchester so it must be unbearable in Madrid.

I'm not sure about those other bus routes - other members should be able to fill you in, but I can tell you the route of the 74, as I took it many times. It was my direct link between my home in Cheadle Heath and exciting Manchester city centre.

The 74 began in Stockport - I think it was Mersey Square, made its way up the hill, like most other buses out of Mersey Square, and round by the former post office, then left onto Wellington Rd South, up the hill, past the town hall where it turned right onto Greek Street, across the roundabout, and continued down Castle Street.

Castle Street has sadly been pedestrianised and its a shadow of its former self, as I remember it, a busy bustling shopping street with people, cars, vans, lorries and lots of buses of different types and colours.

The 74 continued down Edgeley Road, where it went past our house, number 140. That's where I used to hop on - maybe on my way to school at Xaverian College or on my way into town.

It continued down Edgeley Road, onto Stockport Rd the A560 as far as Cheadle, then it turned right towards Parrs Wood. It stopped in front of the 1939 apartment building Parrs Wood Court, past the bus depot - now Tescos - under the railway bridge next to East Didsbury station, then right onto Parrs Wood Road - a road today I often drive up and down - or teach pupils learning to drive.

It continued up the long straight Parrs Wood Road, the wheels noisily passing over the old concrete sections - covered many years ago with tarmac.

It turned right at Talbot Road, next to Ladybarn Park, crossed over Mauldeth Road, and turned left onto Kingsway, where it continued up the hill and over the South Manchester Loop Line railway bridge.

It went through the roundabout at West Point along Slade Lane towards Longsight, where it then followed the 92 route north along the A6, through Ardwick, around the big Mancunian Way roundabout - in 1994 replaced by a flyover - along London Road and onto the Portland Street end of Piccadilly Gardens, where it terminated.

I remember trolleybuses stopping there too.

I often took the 74 in and out of Manchester. I think it may also have departed from the concrete bus station, built 1958 and demolished around 1991. It's a shame it was demolished, I liked it and have fond and vivid memories of it. It features in the film Hell Is A City, made 1991, at the end.

The distance to our house must have been 8 or 9 miles, but I'm sure it took less than an hour. Buses went a lot faster in those days - the late 60s early 70s - as they had conductors and there was less traffic on the road.

The 74 was withdrawn at some point, but I still have fond memories of it, and the friendly whistling bus conductors and conductresses.

[Phil Blinkhorn]

I'm on holiday at present so have no access to my archive and I'd rather not trust to memory on the exact details of the date and number swaps on the Wilmslow Rd routes, or on the 97/147. Unless someone else comes up with the info in between times, I'll post on after my return at the end of the week after next.

I can give you some info on the 74 as I have some Stockport info to hand. It started life as an un-numbered service on October 19 1930 operating from Andrew Sq to Lower Mosley St Manchester, Ten days later it received its route number and the Stockport terminus was moved to Vernon Park.

On November 8 1931 the Manchester terminus moved to Parker St. The route, however, was not via Cheadle and Parrs Wood but via Reddish.

On October 11 1936 the route number was allocated to a new service from Mersey Sq to Manchester Parker St via Cheadle, Parrs Wood, Parrs Wood Rd, Longsight and Ardwick.

On March 4 1951 the service was extended at the Stockport end to St Pauls Church, Portwood.

In 1958 the Manchester terminus was moved to Chorlton St where it remained until GMT ended the route (I don't have a date to hand). Piccadilly was the temporary terminus when work was carried out, first to build the car park over Chorlton St bus station and when remedial work was needed due to concrete cancer in the structure.

On Sundays the service was afternoons and early evenings only.

[Orla Nutting]

The infamous route number changes took place on 2nd January 1968....and caused chaos for months.
The 40 (East Didsbury-Albert Sq[Princess Street]) became the 50 whilst the 50 (Brooklands to Piccadilly) became the 41.
The 41(Barlow Moor Road to Royal Exchange/Piccadilly loop) became the 49.
The 49(Piccadilly to Mersey Sq via Green End) became the 97.
The old 97 (Piccadilly to Withington via Yew Tree Road) became the 48.
The 48 (Exchange to Altrincham via City Road) became the 64 and the 47 (Piccadilly to Altrincham via Chester Rd) became the 63.
The 63 and 64 (Piccadilly to Styal and the Airport respectively via Wilmslow Rd) became 46 and 44.
The 161/162 became the 45 without any Limited Stop facility.
The 42 remained more or less unchanged with perhaps more through services to East Didsbury
Most Wilmslow Road services then terminated at Royal Exchange except the 47 ( Piccadilly) and a rush hour only service, the new 40, which went from Piccadilly to Sale Moor.
The 31and 31a were spared any involvement in this chaos!

[Phil Blinkhorn]

Just to add to the above, the 97 which had been Piccadilly, Wilmslow Rd, Yew Tree Rd, Withington did indeed become the 48 and the 49 (Piccadilly to Mersey Sq via Green End) which had begun in 1966 as a rush hour only service, became all day as the 97.

The 147 which had been a limited stop, rush hour only, version of the Withington 97 was withdrawn and the number was later allocated to a Cannon St to Hollinwood service.

Northenden vehicles did indeed operate the Withington services, though I remember that after the renumbering, Parrs Wood took over though I can't find definitive proof.

Most of the services on the renumbered routes, whilst terminating at Royal Exchange did a circuit of the city centre to take in Piccadilly.

On the morning of the changeover (January 2 1968) Jack Thompson sat in his office and almost cancelled the whole changeover, so chaotic had been the operation and so unpopular the instant reaction with the switchboard flooded with complaints. Had there been a way of scrapping the scheme and starting over, he would have done so.

[Jonblake]

Many thanks to all three of you for the information; sorry not to have answered earlier but being on holiday takes me away from the computer a bit more than usual. Thanks again.

Just one more question for the 74 experts, though; your information has made me clearly see in my mind's eye pictures of Stockport vehicles with 'Stockport Vernon Park' on the front during the period mid 1969 - early 1970 when I travelled, as I said before, from Didsbury on a 16 to Mersey Square, then changing to a 92 to get to Hazel Grove. But I have no recollection of Manchester vehicles operating this, nor yet seeing 74s on Kingsway or round Parrs Wood, and I did get up there a fair bit. Had the service become a Stockport only route, Vernon Park to Cheadle, by then?

[Phil Blinkhorn]

The route was a joint operation to the end of the municipal bus fleets.

The 74 was long the preserve of the 1949 Manchester Leyland/MCW PD1s right up until their final withdrawal in 1968. These were replaced with 1958 Leyland/Burlingham PD2s.

[Orla Nutting]

Originally Posted by Jonblake

Just one more question for the 74 experts, though; your information has made me clearly see in my mind's eye pictures of Stockport vehicles with 'Stockport Vernon Park' on the front during the period mid 1969 - early 1970 when I travelled, as I said before, from Didsbury on a 16 to Mersey Square, then changing to a 92 to get to Hazel Grove. But I have no recollection of Manchester vehicles operating this, nor yet seeing 74s on Kingsway or round Parrs Wood, and I did get up there a fair bit. Had the service become a Stockport only route, Vernon Park to Cheadle, by then?

It's entirely possible that you never saw a #74 at Parrs Wood if you were travelling on a #16. You would only have caught a fleeting glimpse of a #74 between Parrs Wood Road and the railway bridge by East Didsbury station, a matter of a couple of hundred yards. It's more likely that you caught sight of a Stockport operated #74 showing "STOCKPORT VERNON PARK" whilst in Mersey Square waiting between transfers from a #16 to a #92 or vice-versa.